Why is a Republican Governor Calling for and Offering to Pay for a Change to Democratic Party Rules?

But in all that time that McCain is out of the confetti-filled limelight, he gets to unite his party without having to worry about opposition from another candidate. He gets months to get the pundits behind him, in order to beat the Democrats. That doesn't necessarily require MSNBC and CBS and CNN reporting on his every move. Or any of them.

Primaries have nothing to do with rights. No one has a right to vote in a primary. The primary process is a party process. It has nothing to do with the government at all. They get the benefit of government resources, but it is not a government-run process. The Democratic party can nominate its candidate however it wants, which includes not allowing anyone to vote on it at all. Howard Dean could personally, unilaterally choose the nominee and that would be perfectly legal. In fact, some parties do choose nominees without a vote. And some people run without a party.

So what's the problem here? If you want to complain, complain to the people who moved the primary knowing it would lead to this result. Complain to the party if you want. But don't talk about your rights. There's no such thing as a right to vote in a primary.

So what's the problem here? If you want to complain, complain to the people who moved the primary knowing it would lead to this result. Complain to the party if you want. But don't talk about your rights. There's no such thing as a right to vote in a primary.

Agreed. It pains me how many people don't realize that primaries are only directly tied to the general election because the two major parties have an inordinate amount of strength do to money and numbers.

Well maybe they have something up their sleeves, I don't know. But I would much rather have whoever the nominee is get the votes from all the states.

I am certainly not in favor of seating the delegates as they stand, because there was no campaign, and in Michigan Obama wasn't on the ballot. So it's either not seat them, or have another election; I'd rather see the second of those two.

I'd rather see party rules stand for something, and the opinions of Floridians I've seen here agree.

I have written the DNC at least 4 times and signed two petitions stating under no uncertain terms should they change the rules. What is up with the Republicans interfering? I am so sick of them. Just because John McCain cannot win on his own merits don't go interfering in our race. If you saw Bush and McCain today you will know why it is in their best interests...

Because McCain can't show up on time and Bush is a lousy dancer? :)

Distorted election results are worse than no election at all.

Case study: Dubya as President.

That may also be disturbing, but less so than the fact that some Clinton campaign staffers think the vote should count as is (without another primary). They want the delegates without the bother of a fair vote.

It may be annoying that Republicans want to run against Clinton and are trying to proactively make that happen, but I would hardly consider having more votes count to be unfair so long as the voting process itself is fair. In other words, it's hardly unfair to give Florida some say in the nomination process. It doesn't matter if that benefits one candidate or the other. That doesn't affect what is actually fair.

Motivations aside, the action itself of trying to get a revote is not a bad thing for Democrats. If Democrats are that concerned about letting Clinton run then they should just admit it and kick her out of the race (which is what the super-delegates can do if they so choose). Fighting against this change just because Republicans are involved is disingenuous, though. That's a terrible reason to be opposed to it.

Adam and all - In rethinking this (slightly) and I'm wondering if those of us who are Barack supporters would have less of a problem if they made it a caucus, rather than a primary? Might be an interesting counter to the Clintons and the governor.

Richard for me the answer is NO. The DNC made the rule now they should stick to it. What happens in 2012 if the same thing happens? They keep making it sound like the primary was the driving factor. There was a property tax amendment and local elections that drove this primary--that is why votership was so high. Of course it is not being spun that way but what else is new.

Mary - You're right. Briefly lost hold of my senses. (Happens when you hit 50.)

You're welcome. I am a little older so I'll help keep you in line!

I personally don't care if they change it or not. My only problem is with the people who think that they can make the vote that already happened count for something. That makes no sense at all. That vote should never have even taken place, and the only fair thing to do is to pretend it never did. If they want to add another real primary in Florida and Michigan then that would not be unfair, but it would be highly unfair to use the worthless numbers they already have as if they're somehow meaningful.

I say leave it as it is. The rules are the rules, that was the deal from the beginning so candidates strategized based on those rules. It would be unfair to change the rules in the middle of the game.

Precisely, DD. one can't keep changing things just because they might not work how expected! It makes a mockery of the whole thing.

All petition on MI and FL

Dear Friends,

I have just read and signed the petition: "Campaign to Retain a Fair Nomination Process ". Please take a moment to read about this important issue, and join me in signing the petition. It takes just 30 seconds, but can truly make a difference.

We are trying to reach 50,000 signatures - please sign here:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Give-Us-Fairness

I signed it!

Thanks Steve please pass it on!

Ms Cyprah don't even try. The Republicans are just sticking their nose in Democratic business. They need to concentrate on their own candidate and finding somebody young enough and credible enough to offset his many flaws and flip flops.

Spiffie the DNC said half of the delegates would be stripped and all of the super delegates. I am not sure how we got to zero delegates counting other than this is what the committee decided. The Republicans also allowed their candidates to campaign there. I do not know why the DNC was so punitive but they created a MESS so live with it.

As I understand it, the issue was referred to the DNC rules committee, and they voted to strip all the delegates.

Also, folks need to know that the reason all names were left on the ballot is because Florida state law says the candidates name must be on the primary ballot in order for it to be on the presidential ballot.

Explanation of what happened last year when DNC stripped delegates.

It seems that everyone might have accepted the rules because they expected more of the same with the elections. They did not expect such a knife edge contest. But with the exciting turnaround and unexpected twists and turns, everyone now wants a piece of the action!

They don't have to have a caucus, they just have to hold a delegate selection process under the DNC rules. It could be a primary, if that's what they chose.

Double Demon, I guess if you are looking for a loophole you could argue your point, that the rules did not include a "what if: scenario. Rules are established for a purpose. Had the rules included a "what if" scenario, many would choose the route that best suited their purpose. You can't have a "what if" scenario! It is rule breakers or those that think they are superior to the law and can change and amend rules that always causing disarray in our world today. Therefore I feel it is imperative that Florida and Michigan should be ignored. The process has occurred, the rules were broken and disciplinary procedures must be imposed to the parties guilty. The rules were set, signed off on. I don't think we need any amendments at this juncture as the republicans would love to declare the DNC unfair.

I smell a rat in Florida and I don't think the DNC should allow the republicans to dictate our democratic race anymore than they already have. As you said, mathematically Florida nor Michigan will not decide the race. The superdelegates will still be involved to decide the final nominee. Therefore, why should tax payer money be wasted!

The rules were set a year and a half ago," Dean said. "Florida and Michigan voted for them, then decided that they didn't need to abide by the rules. Well, when you are in a contest you do need to abide by the rules. Everybody has to play by the rules out of respect for both campaigns and the other 48 states."
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Here is the problem with Harold Dean...Rather than stick to his original message above, he is beginning to waffle as you previously pointed out by saying things like......
"All they have to do is come before us with rules that fit into what they agreed to a year and a half ago, and then they'll be seated," Dean said Thursday during interviews on network and cable TV news programs."
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I guess this is why Dean didn't last in the Presidential Race in 2004...people didn't trust his words!

How is he not sticking to his words? The rules allow a later primary or caucus to be held in the event that a state legislature tries to do what FL and MI did. Dean wants the states to work within the rules. That hasn't changed one iota. It's up to FL and MI to agree to comply with the rules.

The rules do not allow for a rematch. The DNC is now saying they MAY allow this if the candidates agree. Here is portions of another article relating to this matter:

Let's review what happened here. Back in 2006, the Democratic National Committee approved rules for when states could hold their primaries. They decreed that no states except Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina could vote before Feb. 5—and that any state jumping the gun would lose its convention delegates. (The Republican National Committee canceled just half of their delegates.) According to the DNC, the members from Florida and Michigan supported that policy.

But then some people in those states had a better idea. They were sick of seeing Iowa and New Hampshire hog all the attention. So the legislatures and governors decided to flout the approved schedule and hold their primaries in January. They figured they were so big and important that the presidential candidates would show up to campaign anyway—and that the party would ultimately cave in and seat their delegates.

Saulius Anuzis, head of the Michigan Republican Party, summed up the prevailing sentiment among politicians on both sides of the aisle: "We understand that this violates the rules of both the Democratic National Committee and the Republican National Committee. We don't care."

Uh, no. If you read the actual rules (available here [PDF]), you'll that an alternative delegate selection process was allowed:

A state party may be required by a vote of the DNC Executive Committee upon a recommendation of the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee to adopt and implement an alternative Party-run delegate selection system which does not conflict with these rules, regardless of any provable positive steps the state may have taken.

According to Reg 2.9 Amendments and Plans/ (A.) Once plan is found in compliance any amendments must be submitted and approved by RBC. (B) Technical amendment may be approved by co-chair/Substantive amendments must be referred by co-chair for full RBC.

Howard Dean can not make any decisions without having a meeting with the full RBC! Do you know of any meetings with the full Rules and By-law Committee that have taken place yet?

Once the RBC meets, they can approved to make changes to the original document of rules and accept the amendment to allow another primary in Florida or Michigan, but not until unless they break the rules.

..When all else fails and Florida gets it way and the re-do is done, here is an example of what the good folks of Florida have to look forward to: Quote from The Swamp: "The Florida chicken wing chain that gave away free appetizers to registered voters in a promotion pegged to state's tainted primaries has upped the ante. If Florida holds another primary, Hurricane Grill and Wings said it will hold a sweepstakes for 'a trip to Washington, D C to learn about our democratic process."

With all due respect to the people of Florida, I hope a re-do is not done! If they want to seat the delegates I would suggest a 50/50 split.

Raven I am a Florida and I say follow the rules that everyone agreed to. Florida and Michigan, whose elected officials are Hillary Clinton's supporters, do not deserve to select the nominee for president.

This is amazing. Hillary Clinton loses 11 primaries/caucuses in a row, wins 3 with questionable tactics, claims momentum, loses another, is in the number 2 position, offers the front runner a VP slot, and wants to change the rules. Amazing...what will tomorrow bring?

Hey Mary! I lived in Florida for a couple of years. I was there in 1986 when the Challenger exploded. I agree that the rules should be enforced as I have stated earlier. As we know, there are a lot wanting to challenge the will of the democratic party. I am only saying, if anything is done, I think the 50/50 split would be decisive. After all, it really is not about the people of Florida..it is about the delegates wanting to go to the convention and the governor wanting to appease John McCain and his fellow republicans!

I heard Obama speak today when he talked about the VP position Clinton was offering. He gave a good speech, I just wish he would throw the "dish water" at her!

Raven I know I remember where and what I was doing when the Challenger blew up...

Hillary will not go for the 50-50 split. She wants all of the delegates otherwise she cannot overtake Obama. There is a strategy at play that will not be good for the party. The delegates should be able to go to the convention but should not be able to decide the nomination. What was the point in going through this exercise if the punishment was going to be a do over with more weight because they could be the deciding factor. That is extremely unfair and I will be extremely upset if she gets the nomination because of it. I will leave the Party and a lot of other folks will too.

Wonder why the Republicans are not complaining about 1/2 of their delegates not being seated due to the early election? Wonder why they are not fighting for the other 1/2 delegates to be seated?

Mr. Charlie Crist doesn't need their votes and neither do the Republicans. The Republicans in Florida have done their part to screw Democrats out of the vote and cause chaos in the party. Do not think this wasn't Republicans doing their dirt again. It was the Democrats fault for going over the top and now realizing that Hillary Clinton won't win without them.

DD, I think it was Senator Nelson who was talking up the idea of a mail-in campaign. He supports Hillary.

I will repeat..."I smell a rat in Florida!" Governor Criss endorsed McCain prior to the Florida primaries. If a redo is done, it will be a repeat of Ohio with republicans crossing over in the voting process to cause chaos and ensure that the republicans help elect the candidate of their choice whether it be Clinton or Obama. A redo should not be done if justice is to be served. The people of the state are not upset because they didn't get to vote. The delegates are concerned that they might not play a role at the DNC and the governor wants to decide the race.

Majority of Florida super delegates support Hillary Clinton. That rat you smell is stinking to high heaven...

Charlie Crist needs to take his fake concern and stuff it. I hope the rest of my fellow Florida Democrats finally see him for what he is--a Republican first and foremost...

Well I just heard Hillary Clinton say the primaries in Florida and Michigan were fair and they should be seated as is or a revote done. I was simply flabbergasted.

Catch Keith Olbermann's Countdown on MSNBC tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern/7:00 p.m. Central. It will be worth watching his special comment...cannot wait.

Hillary is one calculating woman! Most of the states have split the delegates, with one of the candidates getting a couple more than the other candidate. I don't think the difference is worth the expense of $10million or more! Shoot give the people of Florida or Michigan the money they earn to have the campaign and forgo the voting process. I am sure the money would be more appreciative than the voting process! The only reason I can figure Hillary wants the re-vote is because she has come up with some process to fraud the recount! Why else would she risk losing?